Things You Don't Like About The Beatles

[2 of 3]

I guess you could look at it that way. I didn't. I didn't do drugs because the Beatles did or sang about it. I know...I'm weird.

[Greg]

This is such an interesting issue.  I could see someone writing a large piece on the Beatles and drugs.  It kind of sounds like you actually did a.b.

Anyway, I know Macca pushes vegetarianism all he can, but I'm not sure how many people he actually has converted.  I'm a vegetarian, but not because of Paul.
My impression (and this is just my impression) is that they never promoted drugs.  The classic line for me )like 2 of 3 said) is from Paul when he said that it was the news' liability for printing it.  Don't go and ask him, print it for all to see, then blame him.

I can't see how Tomorrow Never Knows promoted drugs.  Helter Skelter was a children's slide and was taken for something else.  Lucy in the Sky...you know the story.  Dylan took I Want to Hold Your Hand for a song about pot.  I really have to think hard about the Beatles' influence on drug-taking because I respect your views a.b. 

I'm not trying to get into a here's-why-I'm-right-and-you're-wrong thing.  I am bringing up some points.  I hope people chime in with their views.  It's all cool.

[Kylenz]

Hey Kyle.....how's the earthquake?

Rockin' and rolling! I felt the initial quake, woke me up, loud roaring noise and I thought it was the wind, then the windows were rattling and the bed was rolling along like on a sea of jelly, and I could feel the foundation pillars underneath moving.. went for like 2 minutes.

I flicked over to CNN to see their live coverage, and they had a still photo of the 'Manchester Street' street sign among the rubble - little did the American viewers know that Manchester Street is the 'red light district' in Christchurch! 

[2 of 3]

the bed was rolling along like on a sea of jelly, and I could feel the foundation pillars underneath moving.. went for like 2 minutes. 

2 minutes? Yeah...if you're SUPERMAN!! 

[acebackwords]

This is such an interesting issue.  I could see someone writing a large piece on the Beatles and drugs.  It kind of sounds like you actually did a.b.

Anyway, I know Macca pushes vegetarianism all he can, but I'm not sure how many people he actually has converted.  I'm a vegetarian, but not because of Paul.
My impression (and this is just my impression) is that they never promoted drugs.  The classic line for me )like 2 of 3 said) is from Paul when he said that it was the news' liability for printing it.  Don't go and ask him, print it for all to see, then blame him.

I can't see how Tomorrow Never Knows promoted drugs. 

Paul described "Magical Mystery Tour" as "a simulated drug trip."
Lennon always denied "Lucy in the Sky" had anything to do with drugs.  But Paul stated the obvious when he admitted: "When we were singing about tangerine trees and all that we were singing about drug trips, no question about it."  He also admitted that the line "I'd love to turn you on" (another "drug song," as Lennon admitted) was a direct reference to Timothy Leary and his mantra "turn on, tune in and drop out."
Lennon said in an interview in Red Mole (a radical zine): "I want to influence as many people as I can with my music and my interviews."  And  "The Beatles were like a Trojan Horse in a way.  The Beatles went to the top of the charts and then sang about sex and drugs."

I should add, many, many people feel the Beatles did a great thing by introducing psychedelic drugs to so many people.  The jury is still out on psychedelics.  But yeah, my book "ACID HEROES" is avaiable on amazon.com or you can check out my website www.acidheroes.wordpress.com

But no, don't you think the vegetarianism analogy is a gross over-statement, Greg?  I didn't mean to imply that the Beatles were puppet-masters who could maipulate their fans any way they wanted.  But does that then mean they had NO influence or effect?

[Greg]

Gross overstatement?  I mean...yeah.  It was.  I kind of knew it at as I was writing it. 
So it still becomes an issue of their advocating drugs.

I guess they never went out of there way to dissuade people.  And again I immediately bring the blatant promotion of beer into my thinking thus leading to an endless drug discussion.

The Beatles mentioned their drug use, which was willingly reported by the press, but there probably is no denying it must have influenced some people.  And yes even one person is significant.

I just don't have an issue when it comes to The Beatles and drugs.

[Paperback Writer]

 

Regarding the whole Beatles=drugs thing, well, some may find it a debatable point, but as I stated in my Sept 4 comment, my opinion is that the Beatles did not promote drugs.  "Trips", back in the day, also meant mind expansion.  Metaphors, allegories abound  in references about different states of mind of a metaphysical nature, a different consciousness, without meaning intoxication or drugged.  This has been in literature many, many years prior to the Beatles. 

Really, in real time, LSD was created, researched as a beneficial drug for many reasons, of course the CIA tried to use it for "truth serum" and mind-control.  LSD was legal, researched at the leading university and hospitals.  So the turn from "whole-sale-ing" LSD by Leary and Kesey and experimentation by folks was far more innocent than is  now depicted.  That the Beatles and most rock stars at the time did it, was not a "biggie."  As others noted, they did not go out and do Public Service Announcements touting it, they answered a question and framed the dilemna for the asking journalists, who chose to go ahead and print the news.

More likely a youth would take drugs back then was: Peer pressure, curiosity, and dissolution with society - at the time - thousands of people were drafted, dying and becoming physically and mentally injured in SouthEast Asian Wars .  Check out the Book : Acid Dreams for reams of information on above - it's a fascinating read and with rock solid documentation and attribution.

Now, if we apply the same broad stroke to everything else the Beatles did, or advocated - do they get  credit for it??? 
If so, roll out the praises for their advocating:

MEDITATION (India, etc),
NEGOTIATING (We Can Work It Out)
Creating a multi BILLION DOLL$R INDUSTRY, (selling over a billion records)- saving the UK ecconomy, VISUALIZATION (so many songs using unique word pictures)
CREATING INTEREST IN LITERATURE AND MUSICAL HISTORY (So many cultural influences were assimilated into their music)
WORK ETHIC (Incredible performing, touring, recording productivity)
BEING AN INDIVIDUAL (Expressing your beliefs, even when it would have been so easy for them to go along for the ride) 
POLITICAL COURAGE (Sticking with their tour of the US South, even after their records were burned and they received numerous death threats)
LOVE _ IF the Beatles advocated anything - this was it - so prevalent in their lyrics.

[acebackwords]

Gross overstatement?  I mean...yeah.  It was.  I kind of knew it at as I was writing it. 
So it still becomes an issue of their advocating drugs.

I guess they never went out of there way to dissuade people.  And again I immediately bring the blatant promotion of beer into my thinking thu leading to an endless drug discussion.

The Beatles mentioned their drug use, which was willingly reported by the press, but there probably is no denying it must have influenced some people.  And yes even one person is significant.

I just don't have an issue when it comes to The Beatles and drugs.

Now I'd have to say you're under-stating your case.  Hey, the Beatles put out of a trilogy of whats usually referred to as their "psychedelic albums" (as in psychedelic drugs)   -- Revolver, Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour -- three albums that are considered among their most influental.  Albums (if you're old enough to remember) that sparked massive interest in psychedelic drugs.

I also think its fair to say that the Beatles  -- particularly Lennon -- were well aware of the affect and influence they had, and even revelled in that power. 

[acebackwords]

The Beatles were well aware of the effect they had on their fans (I'm not talking about you guys on this board who are older and mature, but the millions of impressionable young children the Beatles had as fans when those albums were released).

When George innocently mentioned he liked jellybeans, fans started buying them by the ton and pelting the Beatles with them everywhere they went.  When Pete Shotton asked Lennon why he wanted to open up the Apple botique clothing store, Lennon said:  "If the Beatles started wearing shirts with one arm torn off, the next day millions of fans would be buying shirts with one arm torn off."

When the Beatles sang: "Picture yourself on a boat on a river" the message was no less than "Picture yourself on an LSD trip."
When the Beatles sang:  "Roll up for the Mystery Trip" the message was no less than "Roll up for the LSD trip."
When the Beatles sang:  "I'd love to turn you on" the message was no less than "I'd love to turn you on to LSD."

That was certainly their intent at the time (as many, many interviews make clear).  And that was certainly the message that millions of fans picked up at the time.  Over the years, Lennon spewed a lot of double-talk to try and obscure his original message of these songs  -- probably because he himself developed huge reservations over the merit of the message.   But yeah,  this is just my opinion -- an opinion of one  -- but I think it was hugely irresponsible of the Beatles to do this when they, at the time, had an audience of millions of impressionable children.

[acebackwords]

I guess you could look at it that way. I didn't. I didn't do drugs because the Beatles did or sang about it. I know...I'm weird.

Again, I think you're under-stating the point.  Lennon can shout "peace" from the top of his lungs, but thats not gonna necessarily make the listener more peaceful (though many, many Beatles fans certainly give Lennon a lot of credit for this particular effect).  Lennon can shout that Yoko is a genius.  But thats not necessarily gonna persuade listeners.

But did the Beatles have a lot of effect in creating the drug culture that emerged out of the '60s? I think so.

[Greg]

Man this is a great issue.  No one is going to change anyone's mind.  It also turns into a "oh-yeah-but-what-about-this?" kind of thing.
But this is interesting stuff. (I pretty much agree with PW's who post, so I don't know why I'm even writing)

That Pete Shotton statement:  Big difference between "Hey LSD is cool" and "Wear a funny shirt".

Yes they had to be aware of their power.  Drugs, to them, probably just weren't thought of of this evil thing, so they didn't hide it.  But I did think that George or Paul, in the late 60's, kind of said that they weren't needed.  I thought LSD was an alright thing.  I kind of enjoyed it but didn't see the need to continue. 

But shouldn't them being seen drinking beer or talking about how they liked beer be a bad thing?

I'll say it again;  LSD can't even come close to doing what bad things alcohol has done.

Ok, so ace'b, your point was that it was irresponsible to do what? (and I ask that not sarcastically, but wanting to know in a sincere manner)  Remember what time period this all happened in too.  I'm going to probably agree that they were irresponsible for some stuff, but I just don't think their drug issues were so terrible when even Dylan accused I Want To Held Your Hand of being a drug song.  What were they supposed to do?

I guess at most I'd agree that they could have said that kids should not do drugs, but the press never asked them what their advice to children and drugs would be. 

I'm rambling.

[acebackwords]

Hi Greg:  I appreciate your thoughtful response.  Yeah it is a complicated issue.  Took me 300 pages in my book to work it out.  As for the Beatles influence, McCartney in the "Anthology" book compared the Beatles power to that of Hitler.  "We could have gotten the kids to do anything."  Them's just the facts.  So its an interesting issue how the Beatles used their power and influence.  Keep in mind, in the mid-60s Lennon and Harrison both were fervently believers in LSD.  Felt it had the power to transform the world.  Even Paul had a famous quote where he said he saw God while taking LSD and that all the wars and poverty could be solved if only the politicians took acid.   Who knows. 

[Greg]

Awesome response.  And yes I am glad you took my comments as thoughtful.  Because of the anonymity of the internet discussions like this usually end up in a mess.  I have learned from this.  Let there be no doubt I have learned more than I use to know a.b.