Beatles vs. Beach Boys harmonization

[MeanMrMustard]

B. Wilson was/is as much a musical genius as Lennon or McCartney. Unfortunately, he was shackled with terrible emotional difficulties (thanks to his tyrannical father and the massive amounts drugs he imbibed) which eventually drove him into isolation...but also enabled him to create his masterpiece, "Pet Sounds". From what I recall, when he first heard "Rubber Soul" he panicked that he and the Beach Boys wouldn't be able to top this Lp (there was something of a cross-Atlantic rivalry between the BB & The Fab, albeit understated),and it was then that a reclusive Brian Wilson went to work dilligently on P.S., which was heralded critically--even though Mike Love later famously dismissed it as junk. Paul McCartney himself, as everyone knows now, was in love with Pet Sounds and excitedly recommended the album to everyone he met during this period. I'm sure there was also some latent jealously in the mix because shortly afterwards Sgt. Pepper exploded on the scene--putting an end to all the "one-upsmanship" between Brian and Lennon/McCartney. Even the massive "Good Vibrations" single--as long as it took to make and as cutting-edge as it was in it's time couldn't compete w/ what The Fab had up their collective sleeves. Brian felt defeated--he even shelved work on the Pet Sounds follow-up Lp "Smile", which only saw the light of day decades afterward in it's completed form. To an aweful lot of ppl from my generation, there's no question that Wilson was a latter-day Mozart, America's only answer to the Beatles musical "onslaught" to these shores(not counting the Dylan contribution which was also substantial). To this day Brian is nevertheless revered. For me, "God Only Knows" (which Paul once remarked, "is the greatest pop song ever written"), "Good Vibrations", "Wouldn't It Be Nice" "Caroline, No" are the Yank equivalents to "Strawberry Fields Forever", "A Day In The Life", "Penny Lane" "Lucy In The Sky" respectively. 

 

[mervap]

Brian Wilson is an unquestioned genius....it's such a shame that he shouldered virtually all the songwriting duties and felt all that pressure alone.

[Kylenz]

Yeah and unfortunately Brian had a lot of undue pressure placed on him from his dad - I think Brian eventually took the step of sacking his father as Beach Boys manager and took the duty basically on his own. I've heard some studio recordings behind the scenes of Brian's dad and he was a perfectionist - making it hell for the group - but then again it was his pushing that took the group to where they got.

As for comparing harmonies - Beatles vs Beach Boys - I'm not sure how to go about it - at their peak, both groups were sublime.. unparalleled. I really wouldn't want to make a call on that one!

[mervap]

I'm not convinced that the Beach Boys, and Brian Wilson, wouldn't have made it big even without Murray Wilson's abuse....a big talent like Brian's would have made it anyway, in some capacity. Daddy Wilson reminds me of a "little league Dad"...you over seas guys may not understand that reference, but here goes: Dad has a little talent in some area (baseball, football, soccer, music), but because he had a family while young, he never achieves his 'greatness'....when he pushes his child, who is the source of much latent resentment, into his area of expertise, he feels compelled to live out his aspirations through the child....and becomes the source of anger and resentment for the child. I know, I know....the huge majority of little league parents just want the kids to have fun and not get hurt (and learn a bit about life), but the exceptions to that rule trouble me...I remember so many boys whose Dads were coaches on little league teams when I was a kid who just HATED playing baseball, all because thier Dads forced them to do it....same thing in football. I knew a kid who was a GREAT chess player, hadn't any baseball aspirations at all, whose Dad made him not only play, but made him pitch....he was AWFUL, and miserable.

I'm sorry.....what was the topic? Oh, yeah, the Beach Boys were every bit as good as the Beatles....maybe better. The three Wilson brothers had been doing that since they were young and maybe it came a bit more intuitively. At least they loved doing music...Murray didn't have to force them.

[2 of 3]

Ok, now I'm going to throw the wrench/spanner into this Brian Wilson love fest. Ok...other than Pet Sounds...which I agree is genius.....what else has this guy done? IT all sounds the same to me. He's written a lot of great tunes....but he's miles behind McCartney as far as material goes. Ok, I'm wearing the Kevlar...go to it boys.

[MeanMrMustard]

Besides Pet Sounds, "Smile" (the project Wilson nearly aborted forever, and didnt see the light of day in it's completed form for many years to come) was as great as P.S.

[2 of 3]

Ok, then I guess it's just me. I have Smile, and I find it....boring? Quick, somebody give me a pill that gives me good taste in music.

It probably is just me....I have lots of music I think is great, that none of my friends will give the time of day. WHat is wrong with them?

[Kylenz]

Shoot me for this.. but I'm actually more a fan of the early days of the Beach Boys harmonies to the Pet Sounds / Smile era. Songs like You're So Good To Me, I Get Around, Barbara Ann, California Girls, Fun Fun Fun, Surfin Safari. So much more 'life' and sparkle in the arrangements. Now, I know the Pet Sounds vocals were wonderfully ornate, beautifully done.. I love the album (Smile.. not so much.. except Mrs O'Leary's Cow.. a freakout track with hardly any vocals haha)... but the immediacy of the early Beach Boys catalogue is far more impressive to me.

I also heard that Brian had a hard time convincing the other guys to sing on Pet Sounds / Smile --- didn't Mike Love say that the songs were crap or something like that? It really wasn't 'their' type of music. But I guess Brian was tired of singing about girls and the beach and summer sun and cars. That's why a song like Do It Again is such a cool song to me - they got over the whole 'let's be arty and far out' thing and got back to business with good solid harmonies again - they did Do It Again, Bluebirds Over the Mountain, I Can Hear Music, Cotton Fields and Break Away. I also like the Wild Honey stuff, like Wild Honey, Darlin etc. The Pet Sounds stuff is great but I'm not one to put it on a pedestal like everyone else seems to. There just seems to be more of a positive spirit behind the sound when 'the boys' are on Brian's side, rather than just doing what they're told to sing.

[2 of 3]

My fav Beach Boys album is Holland. What does that tell you? Sail on Sailor and Funky Pretty being highlights for me on that one.


Geesh, sorry about that spelling mistake folks.

[mervap]

I am certainly with you Mr. K. The early stuff by the Beach Boys is more vital and energetic...."Pet Sounds" was such a change, such a surprise. I think the Mike Love quote I read was, "Who's gonna wanna listen to this s**t?". Only problem was , Brian couldn't sustain that kind of output, and his next project crashed and burned and very nearly took him with it. Macca's music is more of an exercise in the pure ability to write songs....he does so effortlessly, at least it appears so. It seemed as though BW took the process much more internally, and when things didn't go well, he couldn't cope.

[Kylenz]

Yeah I agree. I remember an interview with him once and he said something like the moment Strawberry Fields Forever came on the radio, he was driving in his car, it was like he felt a beaten man. But I'm sure when Paul came over to his mansion and joined in on the Smile sessions (Vegetables) they'd come to a mutual understanding. That's one of the great things about The Beatles - there was this 'illusion of rivalry' but in reality even though they were competitive to a point (from a creative / influential / artistic point of view), they were actually on good terms with guys like Brian Wilson, the Stones (John and Paul sang on We Love You, Mick sang on Baby You're A Rich Man, Mick and Keith sang on All You Need Is Love), even Elvis - he was bitterly suspicious of them at first and even tried to have them deported from the US, but when they visited him at Graceland the entire relationship changed and they even had a jam session. They got on well with all their contemporaries. They were competitive but not adversarial. 

[Paperback Writer]

Great topic!

I believe harmonies were a larger component of the music for the Beach Boys - by design - they were modeling the vocal groups of the days before them - then added the Check Berry/Surf Music beats and rythyms to it.
As Brian developed his musical vision - this then expanded into more sophisticated music - as Brian locked-on to the Beatles' musical innovations.

Though Brian's ills were tragic - all was not lost - as all the others - and to a great deal, Carl, expanded on the Beach Boy's music and put out some terrific music, post, Pet Sounds.

Even with the expanded live personnel and musicionsip of the 70's harmonies reigned as their #1 component.  Experiencing a concert then was clearly evident of this.

Good to see someone else HERE knows there was an Elvis-beatles jam of sorts.   

[chris]

as pointed out so brilliantly before me, by p-dub himself...the beach boys' hamonizing was a much more intrigal part of thier sound than the beatles'. it became what they were known for. and that is just. because...(sorry to disagree with the deuce-man)...pet sounds and smile were...and still are masterpieces. (although...kudos to you 2, for recognizing the great, and under-rated...sail on sailer)

i believe that all future harmonizing will forever be compared to (at least for those old enough to remember) how well the beach boys did it. did they do it better? that is subjective...as i prefer the beatles vocal sound to the beach boys. and i will never get over the fact that i think mike love is...and will always be...a tool. but...fair is fair...and if there were a panel discussion on whom contributed more to the hamonizing history in the history of rock music...i would have to admit that the beach boys would probably be suggested, by me, first. 

[MeanMrMustard]

Well, I cant fully agree that Mike Love was merely a "tool"..Granted, he was NO Brain Wilson...but giving the guy his due, he was a principle co-writer w/BW on some of their earlier works before the likes of Van Dyke Parks (etc) made their presence known. And MORE importantly, Mike's voice (that lower register)is as much a trademark or signature sound as Brian's himself..(not forgetting to give honorable mention to the absolute perfect job Carl did on "God Only Knows", Al Jardine on "Help Me Rhonda"..and even Dennis on the seminal BB remake of "Do You Wanna Dance")
BUT on undertanding the artistic (as opposed to the commercial) greater design of Brian's musical vision, Mike Love could be nothing short of Phillistine at times. Thinking that nobody would want to listen to "Pet Sounds" proves this, I think...I suppose at the time he was afraid to lose the die-hard allegiance of the original fan base (by that I mean the "Little Deuce Coupe" and "Little Surfer Girl" crowd)and the accompanying $$ that went w/ all that. I think he "saw the light" later on (or maybe he was just jumping on the "Summer of Love" bandwagon fad) when he got more into transcendental meditation and followed our boys the Fab and the Maharishi to Rishikesh in '68. But for me, it just seemed out of charactor for him-of all the Beach Boys, to become their latter day "guru"...just my opinion)

yet..all that being said, I'm still very fond of Mike for all his early BB work and vocal contributions...despite everything, he was-and always will be- an integral part of their towering "west coast sound"

-MMM